that strange old lady bringing toys on a broomstick

Marco Barlotti marcobar at ds.unifi.it
Thu Sep 25 09:48:44 CEST 2003


At 00:24:47 25/09/2003 +0700, Arie Fachrisal <cien2 at cbn.net.id> wrote:

>I've read several Disney Italian pocket stories and in some of the one-page
>strips, a character similar to Santa Claus can be found. The character is an
>old lady (flying with a broom?) and carry a sack full of gifts(?) just like
>Santa Claus.
>
>Is this an extra imaginary character created out of nowhere or actually a
>character made from references of other character from other
>myths/beliefs/stories/cultural icons?

You will be surprised to find out that the reference is to a Christian 
(maybe better: Christian Catholic) cultural icon. But it is a 100% Italian 
reference.

In the Italian tradition, it was this old lady who would bring toys to 
children, just like the three kings brought gifts to the newly-born Jesus. 
The festivity which celebrates the gifts to Jesus being also the occasion 
to point out that Jesus came to save not only his people (the Jews) but 
everybody in the world, it is called "Epiphany" which means "showing out". 
A corruption of the word "Epiphany" was "Befany" and thereafter "Befana" 
which is the Italian traditional name for that old lady.
Maybe still 70 years ago, parents would give their gifts to children not on 
Christmas but on Epiphany (which is shortly after, on January 6th). They 
would pretend that it was this old lady who brought them. Ah, and I almost 
forgot: the Befana puts her toys in STOCKINGS which hang down at the 
fireplace. Does that remind you of anything? And if you had been a bad boy, 
she would leave a piece of coal in your stocking instead of toys.

To go back to Disney comics, I'll point out that in the early '50s of the 
previous century a few references in Disney comics to Santa Claus putting 
toys in the stockings were changed in the Italyian "Topolino" to this 
woman, Befana. Although the shadow you could see was that of a bearded man 
in a furry coat...
When I was a little boy, I had my toys for Christmas, and it was Santa 
Claus who brought them. But I still had a visit from the Befana on January 
6th, filling my stocking with chocolate and candies. She now is only in 
charge of sweets and candies, not toys; but even in this millennium she 
still visits a lot of homes on January 6th!

>Thanks in advance for the answers.
>
>Keep On Quacking,
>Arie Fachrisal
>
>Barks Quiz:
>"Ho Maid Moonshine. Wherefore arts thou artst?"
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:08:58 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Katie Sullivan <vazali at yahoo.com>
>Subject: the statue
>To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <20030924180858.42607.qmail at web41503.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>I saw that Cornelius Coot statue when I was in Disney World in
>October of 1989, so it's been there at least that long.  I have
>a picture of my nine-year-old self standing by it.  I was so
>thrilled to see it!  :-D
>I was also probably one of the few Americans who saw the
>employee in the Scrooge costume and wasn't surprised to see him
>in a red coat instead of the DuckTales blue.  I bought a
>DuckTales T-shirt while I was there, though, which I wore until
>I outgrew it.  *sigh*  ;)
>I also bought a plush toy of one of the nephews, but since it
>was dressed in a rather odd magenta color that didn't match the
>classic red, blue and green, I named it Phooey in honor of the
>long-lost fourth nephew.  LOL!  Ah, the memories...
>
>The only other time I went to Disney World was in January of
>1996, but I didn't get to the Magic Kingdom that time...just MGM
>and Epcot.  :(
>
>
>Katie Sullivan
>http://www.sullivanet.com/ (should be back up either today or tomorrow)
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:13:44 +0300
>From: Kai Saarto <ksaarto at mbnet.fi>
>Subject: Re: Correspondence and history - replying to Don Rosa
>To: Mike Rhode <mgrhode at yahoo.com>
>Cc: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <3F71DED8.3070303 at mbnet.fi>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Mike Rhode wrote:
>
> >Don said:
> >
> >
> >"There are many more letters from Barks to Rosa and
> >Rosa to Barks during
> >1975-1998 and I have copies of them all, but if I can
> >help it, no one will
> >ever see them. "
> >
> >Don, as an archivist and historian, I've got to
> >disagree with you on this one.  You could deposit the
> >correspondence with an archives such as OSU or MSU or
> >even the Library of Congress w/ restrictions as to its
> >use.  The UKY article quoted you as saying that Barks
> >was the greatest storyteller of the 20th century - is
> >it fair to deprive future generations of the
> >possibility of new insights into Barks' work?
> >
>As a historian I can appreciate some of Mike´s comments. Still, private
>correspondence is *private*. Personally, I wouldn't want my personal
>e-mails all over the internet. When writing to someone in private I at
>least write just to that person and tell him/her things that are meant
>*just* for him/her.  I think what Don said about being "feeling soiled"
>is good description of how I too would feel if my personal letters were
>exposed to anyone who'd like to read them.
>
>Still, it would be great that *some* parts of the said correspondence
>between Barks and Rosa could be seen *someday*. Those that are not
>overly personal.
>
>Following rant in not for you Mike (this is not the same thing), this
>just reminded me of one of my pet peeves:
>
>Why do some people assume they have the right to know everything about
>every celebrity in the planet? I don't think personal diaries/letters of
>people like JFK, Marilyn Monroe or princess Di belong to anyone else but
>them. Its just plain wrong that someone *whole* life becomes public
>domain if he/she becames a public figure.
>
>Then again, I've always hated those celebrity gossip magazines.
>
>--
>- Kai Saarto
>http://www.go.to/donrosa
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:41:55 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Mike Rhode <mgrhode at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Re: Correspondence and history - replying to Don Rosa
>To: Kai Saarto <ksaarto at mbnet.fi>
>Cc: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <20030924184155.37933.qmail at web21411.mail.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Kai, thank you for your thoughtful and measured
>response.  I'll just respond to a few points to
>clarify my original comments although I think we're
>roughly in agreement.
>
>--- Kai Saarto <ksaarto at mbnet.fi> wrote:
> >
> > As a historian I can appreciate some of Mike´s
> > comments. Still, private
> > correspondence is *private*. Personally, I wouldn't
> > want my personal
> > e-mails all over the internet.
>
>Yes, but when you're dead, presumably you won't care.
>:^)  I'm not suggesting Don turn them over to someone
>for research or publishing now.  Just consider it for
>the future.
>
>As much as I respect what Barks made with his life,
>it's interesting to read in Don Ault's book how much
>he had to struggle to get to that point.  His
>reflections  to people, not in published interviews
>but his private musings, would increase our
>understanding of the man especially in the early years
>before (as in Liberty Vallance) the legend became
>bigger than he was.  Barks and all his heirs are dead
>nopw(is that correct btw?), and can't be hurt by
>anything now.
>
> >
> > Still, it would be great that *some* parts of the
> > said correspondence
> > between Barks and Rosa could be seen *someday*.
> > Those that are not
> > overly personal.
>
>Right.  Plenty of correspondence is donated and sealed
>for a set period of time.  It's pretty standard.  I'm
>sure the UKy archives would be willing to advise Don
>if he was interested in this idea.
>
> >
> > Following rant in not for you Mike (this is not the
> > same thing), this
> > just reminded me of one of my pet peeves:
> >
> > Why do some people assume they have the right to
> > know everything about
> > every celebrity in the planet?
>
>I'm also not a big fan of the cult of celebrity that
>the mass media has brought to us, but I think since
>Pepys diaries are usually kept w/ an eye towards
>eventual use.  Overall, I think that someone like say
>Robert Caro on LBJ can add to our understanding of a
>complex person through the paper record.  The recent
>Truman diary 'discovery' by the National Archives was
>interesting - Truman apparently had a healthy dose of
>the unsurprising for the time anti-Jewish racism, but
>still supported the establishment of Israel -- a minor
>historial point perhaps, but an interesting one.
>
>Sorry for wandering off topic, but I feel very
>strongly that Barks is important enough that his
>correspondence should be preserved, just as LBJ or
>Churchill or Hemingway (partially in the Boston
>Kennedy library and partially in Cuba) deserved.
>
>I'm writing this unofficially, but anyone interested
>in seeing the type of material that I am responsible
>for (a small collection of its type) can go to
>http://www.nmhm.washingtondc.museum/collections/guide/gotis/gotis.html
>
>Mike
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:38:07 -0400
>From: SRoweCanoe at aol.com
>Subject: Re: Correspondence and history - replying to Don Rosa
>To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Cc: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <0DE74547.0068265C.0C38BCAA at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>In a message dated 9/24/2003 2:41:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>mgrhode at yahoo.com writes:
>
> >  the legend became
> > bigger than he was.  Barks and all his heirs are dead
> > nopw(is that correct btw?),
>
>
>Believe his children are still alive ----
>   certainly his grandchildren
>Steven Rowe
>SRoweCanoe at aol.com
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:40:17 +0200
>From: Olaf Solstrand <olaf at andebyonline.com>
>Subject: Re: Correspondence and... (OT)
>To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <1064439617.3f720f415c45b at imp.webhuset.no>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Mike wrote:
> > Don, as an archivist and historian, I've got to...
>
>Kai wrote:
> > As a historian I can appreciate some of Mike´s comments...
>
>
>
>Geez, how many historians are there on the list now? :-)
>
>I have counted three (Mike, Kai and Sigvald). More?
>
>
>
>Olaf
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:18:55 EDT
>From: SRoweCanoe at aol.com
>Subject: Re: Correspondence and... (OT)
>To: olaf at andebyonline.com, dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <fb.46eca272.2ca3724f at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>In a message dated 9/24/2003 6:14:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>olaf at andebyonline.com writes:
>Geez, how many historians are there on the list now? :-)
>
>I have counted three (Mike, Kai and Sigvald). More?
>I have been paid  money for historical articles about comics
>           am i by defination a comics historian?
>
>steven rowe
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 3:17:47 +0200
>From: "Sigvald Gr?sfjeld jr." <sigvald at duckburg.dk>
>Subject: The Cornelius Coot Statue
>To: dcml at stp.ling.uu.se
>Message-ID: <200309250117.h8P1HlrU017349 at webmail.dht.dk>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1";
>
>Don Rosa <donrosa at iglou.com> wrote:
>
> >> Statue? Compared to the original statue used
> >> in Don Rosa's stories this is just a little
> >> miniature...
> >
> > Um... I always thought the original statue was
> > used in stories by that other guy.
>
>Oh, sorry for causing this misunderstanding. Barks actually showed many
>Cornelius Coot statues of various size, so in order to be more precise I
>pointed out only the single one of those, that you are using in your
>story...
>
>
> > It would certainly have been much more
> > impressive if it had been a full size copy.
> >
> > When you're right, you're right. It would have
> > been much more impressive if they had built it
> > in its full fifty story size. This only proves
> > it's yet another example of their lack of
> > respect!
>
>No, I wouldn't say that as long as Barks also showed small statues at about
>the same size as the Disney-one.
>
>Sigvald
>
>------------------------------
>
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