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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Gary quoting
me:</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>>>> Dr Wertham [...]
might even have said that the ending shows</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>>>> [...] beating Daisy
was not enough; even her true self is violent
[...]</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>>>> she (and women,
through her) was depicted as evil, and/or [...]</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>>>> Donald had not
beaten her enough (a woman needs a good beating).</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Gary:</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>> This is a more problematic assessment.</DIV>
<DIV>>> I didn't take that meaning at all.</DIV>
<DIV>>> You do say that you didn't think the creators meant to convey
it</DIV>
<DIV>>> so it would appear were both taking things more subjectively
here.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Right. I did not even think of this interpretation
of the ending when reading the story; it just occurred to me when going through
it again for this discussion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm sure this is not the author's intent, and
rather an ironic twist to the ending, with Donald being again the victim,
however heroic he may have acted; countless Italian (European?) stories end
thusly, to the point of it seeming to be a tradition, some sort of requirement
(like Krazy Kat always getting the brick in the head).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Seeing this ending again, however, I could easily
see how it could be interpreted this way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>> You explained your views well and honestly.</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> And, as you've probably discerned, your points interest
me.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks. I hope other readers will join the
discussion (on either side).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>> This one in particular: above you venture the
statement</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> "…but I can't find justification for one character so
graphically</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> beating up a female character…", which is perfectly
straightforward.</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> But I have a problem with the object's adjective, which
leaves us</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> with the idea - my extraction, not your intent - that it
is okay</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> for a male character to be beaten up without
justification.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You got me there (almost); I did think of children
when typing this, but not the other around-- for the very reason you give
below.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>> That's actually the idea that sits at the center of how
things</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> work between Donald and Daisy. [...] Daisy has been
depicted</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> as a thoughtless, selfish, reactionary shrew who thinks
nothing</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> of beating Donald to a pulp verbally and/or physically on
the</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> slightest pretext. It's a horribly dated stereotype of the
female psyche,</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> yet Daisy is still saddled with it, and Donald still takes
the abuse with</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> equally stereotypical male aplomb.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also did think of referring to the stereotypical
hen-pecked husband that is humiliated or beaten in many plays, symbolically or
very concretely, but frankly, I did not know where to insert it in my
paragraphs. You expressed it a lot better than I would have.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>>>>> More generally, we've got two characters who
visually</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> appear to be physical equals, assigned gender roles mainly
through dress</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This does add an interesting layer to the
discussion (regardless of the story considered).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>>>>> Here we have a story where Donald finally responds to
Daisy's abuse</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> in kind...sort of. Donald's justification for beating up
the possessed Daisy</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> may seem flimsy, but it's still far sounder than Daisy's
justification for her relentless</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> hammering on an unpossessed Donald.</DIV>
<DIV>[...]</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> I'll be straightforward myself: I've never found Daisy's
abuse of Donald funny.</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> I accept it as a convention of long standing</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The thing is, I'm not sure it's meant to be funny,
like slapstick. Donald is the eternal victim (starting with the animated shorts,
then more especially in the European tradition; Barks managed to show him as
capable of much bravery): always down on his luck, always fired, always a
failure, and often quite literally kicked around, including by
Daisy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The point, I think, is to make us feel sorry and
care for him, rather than laugh at him, so that we may identify with him and
rejoice at the redeeming portion of a story that shows him to be worth a
lot more-- it so happens I have just read "Crystal Ball" (DD99093, Spectrum
Associates & Bancells, MMA pocketbook 8) while downloading & installing
software; first Donald is told off as being a nuisance, then he accidentally
saves the day, and his family eventually apologize to him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>> When a story comes along that actually forces that
convention</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> out of its usual channels, or at least pokes it in the
eye,</DIV>
<DIV>>>>> that gives it a leg up in my book (so to speak).</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can understand this view.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Still, I think the same result could have been
achieved by being less graphic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To end on a lighter note (interesting as the
discussion is, it is not exactly a funny subject), I'll say I have always
enjoyed the "Mickey and the Sleuth" stories which Jonathan found asinine; their
very silliness makes them funny.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not sure whether the "<FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>utterly horrid Disney Studio stories" you
mentionned <FONT face=Arial size=2>included or were one with the Jaime Diaz
stories, which I also like (though all the Goofy stories published in the
eponymous comic were not good); I read "Goofy King Midas" last
night.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The literally goofy and absurd details of
this silly story (again) make it a fun experience.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The thing I absolutely adore and admire in Diaz's
stories is the layout, the way he plays with the page's composition, the
division into panels using background & set props-- a temple's columns, for
instance; my favorite layout in this story is the vine whose grape (still on the
stalk) is pressed, and the juice flows in a tube that loops around to form a
medallion panel, and ends up watering the very same vine in its
pot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Olivier</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>