Krooisos kai Kirke

[H.W.Fluks@kpn.com]

Don:

> I've addressed this matter several times in the past, and 
> I'll do so again.

And so will I! 8-)
(I think I was the first one to complain about this, here on DCML.)

> A) I obtained the ancient Greek spelling I used for Croesus 
> in my story from
> a photo in a book of an ancient vase depicting Croesus with 
> his name written on it.

I'm still curious to see that photo. To me it sounds like the vase is a
forgery. (Or maybe the vase was tattooed on a lady?)

> 2) I WAS WRITING (or pretending to write) LYDIAN, NOT GREEK!

Yes, but these languages use the same alphabet.

We have the following names:
Lydian KR<omicron>ISOS, Greek KR<omega>ISOS.
Lydian S<ypsilon>RS<epsilon>, Greek K<iota>RK<eta>.
Lydian MIDOS, Greek MIDAS.

Some questions arise:

1. Why would the Greek have a different spelling for *names*? Usually names
don't change. Don Rosa is still Don Rosa in Dutch.

2. Why would the Greek change an S (sigma) into a K (kappa)? All consonant
shifts I know of work the opposite way, changing a K into S (via "tch" and
"sh").

And here are possible answers to those questions:

1. Historical people *do* carry a "translated" name sometimes. For instance
Marcus Antonius is called Mark Anthony in English. Also, the names of the
Pope (Ioannes Paulus II) are translated. A possible reason for this is that
people like to be able to pronounce the names, and English people had
problems with Mar-koos Ahn-toe-nee-oos and such.

2. Lydian is an unknown language, so maybe the Greek had a shift from S to
K. Or maybe the Lydians pronounced a No-one can tell.

And finally, some counter-arguments:

1. Both the Lydian spelling and the Greek spelling of Croesus (and Circe,
and Midas) are perfectly pronounceable for (ancient) Greek. So for what
reason would they change the name?

2. It is a *big* coincidence that the Greek shifted from Lydian exactly the
opposite way that Roman languages shifted ages later.
(S to K, Y to I, long O to short O.)


Anyway, Don's story about King Croesus may help us learning more about that
strange Lydian language...

(BTW, how do the English pronounce "Croesus"? Like "Kreezus"?)

--Harry.